We already have some USB-C flash drives. Isn't just more practical to have USB-C keyboards, mice, and other devices like that instead of conserving the USB A?
A is only the host side on devices not made by total idiots.
While there are a surprising number of devices that get this wrong, and I have never understood why, they are always wrong. It seems to be mostly cheap external hard drive enclosures and scanners I've seen using a type-A port for their upstream-facing port and shipping with the cursed A to A cable.
I think part of it is that for ports up to 10gbit/sec there aren't really as many advantages to using type C on a desktop as on a laptop.
Most desktop computers have dedicated graphics or at least the ability to have dedicated graphics and don't have the input connectors to feed video from the GPU to the USB mux. Most desktop computers can't run off of USB power. Most desktop computers aren't installed in environments where a single cable running to a desktop dock is desirable. Most desktop computers aren't space constrained.
Also adapters that convert a type A port to type C are tiny, they stick out about as far as a mouse dongle making the whole assembly not much larger than a normal A cable. Cables with one A end and one C end are everywhere. Dongles just aren't as inconvenient in a desktop context where you plug them in and leave them.
If you don't actually need the extra data lanes in the connector, there's not really much advantage to using it and for a desktop that is likely to be replacing an existing one with a lot of A connectors plugged in that's a hard push.
IMO laptops should have one or two A ports and as many C ports as they can fit, but desktops I'm not against leaning towards A with just as many C ports as they need to support their USB3.2/4/TB capabilities.
I've been looking for a powered desktop USB hub with both A and C ports and there just doesn't seem to be any reasonable products out there. It's all laptop hub and docs that require that connect to a C port via a 4" cable.
And usually its on the case and not at the back of the MoBo. Mine does have a single one, but on the MoBo since I made sure that I had at least one for my capture card.
It doesn't make sense to extrapolate tech lifetime linearly. Once we hit the physical limits of physical connections, then we can revisit the I/O timelines.
Having two ports with one taken up for charging (so one usable) is inadequate.
But I suppose the problem with adding more is now you need to offer all the things that could be connected on all of them. But you are not willing to provision the hardware to do that. Thats not sunsetting, thats being cheap.
This is the mindset that will keep USB-A ports around forever. Somebody has to be the one to move the world forward, and it's usually Apple who's most willing to retire old ports. At this point I would kill for an Anker battery pack with three or four USB-C ports, instead every single one of them contains wasted USB-A ones that I have no use for.
Yep! I keep a couple of C to A adapters in my bag and have literally zero desire or need for USB A ports anywhere else, be it laptops, chargers, or wherever.
Here I am with my stupid USB-C ports that have an ugly, unwieldy dongle attached to them so that I can use my USB-A devices. If this is the future, I don't like it.
I dunno, I also have a Razer Blade and a MacBook and the lack of that one A port pisses me off regularly. Meanwhile the Razer team managed to fit it next to Thunderbolt and other ports.
It's just such a pointlesslly user hostile move for some Californian dude to make a point about progress.
Any USB-C ports on my laptops go unused, so I exclusively buy devices with min. 3 USB-A ports. All of my peripherals and cables are USB-A, and it's so much easier to tinker with USB-A ports due to the smaller amount of pins (easy to jam in multimeter probes etc)
Same for me, in most cases. I had a work laptop with a USB-C dock. I've got a USB-C ethernet adapter (not used right now, because my laptop has an ethernet port). I've got a couple of USB-C charging cables. Oh, and a DAC dongle that I typically use with my phone.
Then I've got dozens of charging cables, peripherals, storage devices, and such that I've collected across the past 25 or so years, and still want to use.
Every time I find myself wanting to just quickly use a thumb drive by I'm on my M1 Air laptop... sigh Don't have a dongle with me, so guess it'll have to wait.
I'd be fine with 2 of each even accepting 1 of the two USB-C ports will probably be for charging.
> It seems pointless to spend money upgrading hardware, like mice and keyboards, to a new port when the benefits are questionable, and you probably won't notice a performance difference.
Right? If manufacturers stopped permanently attaching USB cables to mice and keyboards, then the problem is solved. That way you can get the cable you need, or maybe you decide to go cordless. It's up to you.
Sadly, the port is [a few cents] more expensive than the captive cable, especially with USB >= 3.0* on USB-C where a port must handle connector reversal. (And if course if you look at "final price" with including a cable in the box :/)
* e.g. keyboard with USB3 hub
(FWIW my mouse actually has a USB-C port, it's a dual wired/wireless Keychron M6. Really nice way of doing it IMHO.)
Btw, "port must handle reversal" is why USB-C -> USB-C + optional C-to-A adapter have the adapter fixed on so you can't rotate it. It's not just good UX, the adapter would also otherwise need to handle reversal.
You pretty much have to include the cable at least for a mouse since a normal cable will be either too rigid or die rather quickly to the continuous movement. The one my mouse came with has a rather nice woven mantle and is quite flexible, hopefully without breaking soon (haven't had the mouse for that long yet, will see.)
The cable that came with my Logitech mouse is the cheapest cable imaginable and is non-replaceable. I guarantee the mouse will last longer than the cable, which is 18 months old and already has 3 tears in the outer sheath.
My last 2 mice both died to microswitch failures, one hard failure (just didn't do anything), one soft failure (just became very mushy and annoying to use). Don't remember before that.
Half the keyboards I've used in the past few years are detachable on the keyboard end. :-) Though, they mostly have 2 A ports for N-key rollover support.
I have female-A-to-male-C cables, I have male-A-to-female-C cables. Some of them have the USB 3 pins (which has kind of been a niche case for C in my life), all of them are safe up to 5A power.
All my computers that didn't have C now have at least one, and all of my C-only computers have an A they can use if they need one.
VGA isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it. DVI isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it.
What a dumb comment. USB-C has been available for over a decade now. Just drop type A and force everyone to use adapters for their remaining type A devices since we’re all forced at this point to use them anyway.
We already have some USB-C flash drives. Isn't just more practical to have USB-C keyboards, mice, and other devices like that instead of conserving the USB A?
Same thing was said about floppy drive, DVD, serial ports, and VGA. We're allowed to sunset things.
Serial ports are still used a fair amount, particularly to interface with stuff that you cannot buy at a local retailer.
So, how do you know that USB A won't have a lifetime of 63 years (the age of the RS-232 standard for serial ports)?
I still use serial ports pretty regularly…
…via USB-to-serial adapters plugged into the USB C port of my laptop.
This is not responsive to the context (which is about what ports ship on mass market devices).
That's even worse. Name a well selling smartphone that has USB-A ports.
Name one that ever did... A is usually the host side, and the phones that did were via adapter.
A is only the host side on devices not made by total idiots.
While there are a surprising number of devices that get this wrong, and I have never understood why, they are always wrong. It seems to be mostly cheap external hard drive enclosures and scanners I've seen using a type-A port for their upstream-facing port and shipping with the cursed A to A cable.
Fair point.
But a computer I bought new 22 months ago (on which I am writing these words) has 7 USB A ports, 1 serial port and 0 USB C ports.
I'm quite confused by how hard to come by USB-C ports are on desktops coming out nowadays.
It's hardly ever more than two, if that.
I think part of it is that for ports up to 10gbit/sec there aren't really as many advantages to using type C on a desktop as on a laptop.
Most desktop computers have dedicated graphics or at least the ability to have dedicated graphics and don't have the input connectors to feed video from the GPU to the USB mux. Most desktop computers can't run off of USB power. Most desktop computers aren't installed in environments where a single cable running to a desktop dock is desirable. Most desktop computers aren't space constrained.
Also adapters that convert a type A port to type C are tiny, they stick out about as far as a mouse dongle making the whole assembly not much larger than a normal A cable. Cables with one A end and one C end are everywhere. Dongles just aren't as inconvenient in a desktop context where you plug them in and leave them.
If you don't actually need the extra data lanes in the connector, there's not really much advantage to using it and for a desktop that is likely to be replacing an existing one with a lot of A connectors plugged in that's a hard push.
IMO laptops should have one or two A ports and as many C ports as they can fit, but desktops I'm not against leaning towards A with just as many C ports as they need to support their USB3.2/4/TB capabilities.
I've been looking for a powered desktop USB hub with both A and C ports and there just doesn't seem to be any reasonable products out there. It's all laptop hub and docs that require that connect to a C port via a 4" cable.
And usually its on the case and not at the back of the MoBo. Mine does have a single one, but on the MoBo since I made sure that I had at least one for my capture card.
It doesn't make sense to extrapolate tech lifetime linearly. Once we hit the physical limits of physical connections, then we can revisit the I/O timelines.
Ok, then follow through please?
Having two ports with one taken up for charging (so one usable) is inadequate. But I suppose the problem with adding more is now you need to offer all the things that could be connected on all of them. But you are not willing to provision the hardware to do that. Thats not sunsetting, thats being cheap.
Since you can buy adapters that let you charge and use the data on the same MacBook port, they should build that into the charger.
The charger could have a USB C or A port on it easily.
[dead]
This is the mindset that will keep USB-A ports around forever. Somebody has to be the one to move the world forward, and it's usually Apple who's most willing to retire old ports. At this point I would kill for an Anker battery pack with three or four USB-C ports, instead every single one of them contains wasted USB-A ones that I have no use for.
USB-A had a long life. It's time to move on.
Yep! I keep a couple of C to A adapters in my bag and have literally zero desire or need for USB A ports anywhere else, be it laptops, chargers, or wherever.
Here I am with my stupid USB-C ports that have an ugly, unwieldy dongle attached to them so that I can use my USB-A devices. If this is the future, I don't like it.
The future is (supposed to be) that you don't have any USB-A devices.
That future is a very, very long way off.
I’m willing to live with not having a USB-A port on a Mac. Not so much on a PC.
I have a Razer Blade. One USB-A and one USB-C on each side of the machine. It just makes so much sense.
I dunno, I also have a Razer Blade and a MacBook and the lack of that one A port pisses me off regularly. Meanwhile the Razer team managed to fit it next to Thunderbolt and other ports.
It's just such a pointlesslly user hostile move for some Californian dude to make a point about progress.
Why exactly? Are you just using the USB A port for a mouse on the PC but not Mac? That's the only sensible thing I can think of.
Personally I'd rather use a USB C hub anyways. I don't want to plug in more than a cable if I don't have to.
Any USB-C ports on my laptops go unused, so I exclusively buy devices with min. 3 USB-A ports. All of my peripherals and cables are USB-A, and it's so much easier to tinker with USB-A ports due to the smaller amount of pins (easy to jam in multimeter probes etc)
Same for me, in most cases. I had a work laptop with a USB-C dock. I've got a USB-C ethernet adapter (not used right now, because my laptop has an ethernet port). I've got a couple of USB-C charging cables. Oh, and a DAC dongle that I typically use with my phone.
Then I've got dozens of charging cables, peripherals, storage devices, and such that I've collected across the past 25 or so years, and still want to use.
Every time I find myself wanting to just quickly use a thumb drive by I'm on my M1 Air laptop... sigh Don't have a dongle with me, so guess it'll have to wait.
I'd be fine with 2 of each even accepting 1 of the two USB-C ports will probably be for charging.
I refuse to buy anything but those thumb drives with both connectors, but of course you’re always using someone else’s …
Not always someone else's but I do have over a dozen 16-256gb drives already. The couple of nvme adapters I have already have both.
Tbh USB-A is still a part of my daily life.
That was a long read to get to this:
> It seems pointless to spend money upgrading hardware, like mice and keyboards, to a new port when the benefits are questionable, and you probably won't notice a performance difference.
Not a very strong or convincing argument.
Right? If manufacturers stopped permanently attaching USB cables to mice and keyboards, then the problem is solved. That way you can get the cable you need, or maybe you decide to go cordless. It's up to you.
Sadly, the port is [a few cents] more expensive than the captive cable, especially with USB >= 3.0* on USB-C where a port must handle connector reversal. (And if course if you look at "final price" with including a cable in the box :/)
* e.g. keyboard with USB3 hub
(FWIW my mouse actually has a USB-C port, it's a dual wired/wireless Keychron M6. Really nice way of doing it IMHO.)
Btw, "port must handle reversal" is why USB-C -> USB-C + optional C-to-A adapter have the adapter fixed on so you can't rotate it. It's not just good UX, the adapter would also otherwise need to handle reversal.
I wouldn't include the cable in the box and I certainly wouldn't worry about USB >= 3.0 for a mouse or keyboard.
You pretty much have to include the cable at least for a mouse since a normal cable will be either too rigid or die rather quickly to the continuous movement. The one my mouse came with has a rather nice woven mantle and is quite flexible, hopefully without breaking soon (haven't had the mouse for that long yet, will see.)
The cable that came with my Logitech mouse is the cheapest cable imaginable and is non-replaceable. I guarantee the mouse will last longer than the cable, which is 18 months old and already has 3 tears in the outer sheath.
Maybe buy less shitty mice ;-)
My last 2 mice both died to microswitch failures, one hard failure (just didn't do anything), one soft failure (just became very mushy and annoying to use). Don't remember before that.
Half the keyboards I've used in the past few years are detachable on the keyboard end. :-) Though, they mostly have 2 A ports for N-key rollover support.
Particularly when the problem is sidestepped with a dongle.
I honestly don't give a shit anymore.
I have female-A-to-male-C cables, I have male-A-to-female-C cables. Some of them have the USB 3 pins (which has kind of been a niche case for C in my life), all of them are safe up to 5A power.
All my computers that didn't have C now have at least one, and all of my C-only computers have an A they can use if they need one.
VGA isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it. DVI isn’t going anywhere so stop removing it.
What a dumb comment. USB-C has been available for over a decade now. Just drop type A and force everyone to use adapters for their remaining type A devices since we’re all forced at this point to use them anyway.
Just kill it off already.
Rack servers still use VGA. Yes, please stop removing it from monitors.
Rack servers have IPMI. Yes please stop making me take trips to datacenters ;)
> Apple phased out USB-A years ago
Weird. The latest Mac Pro has USB A ports.
So does the Mac Studio.
Yeah, my M1 air doesn't.
Nor does my MBP. But Apple hasn't "phased out" USB A yet, on their desktops.
My M4 Mini doesn't have any A ports, so I expect the rest will follow as they get new revs.